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Deus Mortuus :: Stranded

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Reverend Smith
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Post by Reverend Smith Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:10 pm

All of the faceless NPC mooks you'd have the brave heroes face are all named Bobbert Bobswerth McBobbington the Bobbiest BOB. All of them, even the females and the ones with mentioned names. This must be mentioned in the game somewhere, perhaps as an easter egg of sorts, or as some journal entry in some lame journal thing. o3o

And I've decided the OST will be done solely on the kazoo, occasionally with back-up harmonica and a cheesy laughtrack. :|

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Post by Nathaniel Nazbith Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:09 pm

I could do some naming for some skill sets, maybe write up some personalities.
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Post by Lazarus Carter Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:14 pm

I'm taking suggestions, I'll edit in everything that I concur to be good for it. Just name skill sets and give a brief explanation.

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Post by Nathaniel Nazbith Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:23 pm

Well, as a starter for Raymond (I shall refer to them as such until names are chosen) I have
Saint's Slash: Jumps and dives slashes, resulting in a strong physical attack
Plasma Discharge: Uses the hilt of the CQC weapon in a taser like way, resulting in fire damage
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Post by CJ Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:32 am

Antagonist needs a special that deals massive amounts of Fire damage to the entire team, and forces a character swap.

Hellfire Rotation or something.

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Post by Behemoth Hennimore Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:49 pm

Got an idea for the weapons system, take it or leave it; I just think this system might add some more strategy than "OH NO, AN ICE DRAGON! WE BETTER USE OUR FIRE SWORD!"

Have two properties for each weapon and each armour, basically. For convenience let's call them "Class" and "Type".

Class is related to what the weapon actually IS. Is it a knife, is it a gun, is it a pike, stuff like that. There'd be a few variations with some bonuses and flaws (Claymore; Sword, +5 attack, -2 speed) but they'd all have a Class. Armour would also have its own class, and these would be better against certain classes of weapons than others.

Cue a hilariously unbalanced example (NOTE; This isn't what I actually think the classes should do, this is just an example. Which is why I forgot to put in a thing for 'Martial Arts'.)

Spoiler:

The second property, the "Type", is where you get stuff like 'Fire Sword' or 'Holy Shield' or 'Demonic Gun'. These would have their own strengths and weaknesses that I'm guessing that Ross has already worked out or something, but the idea is that these bonuses would stack up, and thus you have to know who to equip with what.

Let's say, for sake of example, that the Pirate and the Lancer are fighting a Demonic Ogre. The Ogre is holding an ice club, so both Pirate and Lancer equip their shields. However, while the Pirate has a fire shield, which resists it for x0.25 dmg, the Lancer only has a wooden shield, though resisting it for half as much. The Ogre also holds a demonic shield and leather armour. The Lancer's Lance seems like the worse choice, as it is resisted by both leather armour AND the shield, but it's a Holy Lance, which hits the Demonic shield neutrally and, because the Ogre is demonic, cancels out the armour, leaving it at a neutral hit. However, the Pirate with her Holy Cutlass (sword), which slices through the armour like cardboard, would also be able to hit the shield neutrally and thus do x2 damage to the Ogre overall.

Just adds that extra bit to the metagame that gives a lot more in terms of strengths and weaknesses and balancing your party. It's not just about knowing "If I hit the fire dragon with my water spell, I will win forever", it's about balance and careful consideration of your weapons and their effects.

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Post by Behemoth Hennimore Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:40 am

So, here are a few ideas about characters, in terms of gameplay rather than personalities or names for attacks and other stuff. It's mainly three things I want to mention; Stats, Proficiencies and Incompetences and finally Growth.

Stats; below are what I think the stats should be and what they should do; trying to cover everything while keeping only a small number of them so none are really arbitrary.

Strength (Corresponds to melee attack strength)
Dexterity (Corresponds to speed in battle, making their turns come around much faster, and also corresponds to ranged non-magic attack strength)
Bulk/Physique (Corresponds to that character's ability to resist melee attacks, plus how many items they can carry in their inventory; the bigger it is, the more stuff they can lug, basically)
Intelligence (Corresponds to magic attack strength)
Willpower (Corresponds to that character's ability to resist magic attacks and status ailments, and also how many magic spells that character can learn)

The reason that I've had stats for how many items and how many spells a character can learn is to make the character levelling a little more complex, and stats more important; for example, if you have a really high intelligence, you can devastate stuff with even the weakest spells, but you won't be very versatile. You'll have four or five spells and that's it. On the flip side, while having lots of willpower gives you lots of options in a fight, a lack of intelligence would also make your spells very weak and unimpressive. It just means that the player has to work that little bit harder to balance out the party.

Proficiencies and Incompetences; On the character page thingy, Ross has classes and a suggestion of weapons for each character. Usually, I'd disagree, because it means that each character has one way to progress UND ONLY VON VAY MEIN FUHRER! But, actually, I think the idea's not a bad one. This is how I'd do it.

Each character would have their own class (of course) which they'd be naturally better at than others. They'd have a few stat bonuses and reductions to those particular characters (I've done it so it's +4 overall and -2 overall), which would be help their specific role in the team (the fighter, the carry, the tank etc etc). We'll use three characters for our example.

PROTAGONIST (for this demonstration we shall call Blast Hardcheese)
Class: Templar
Str +2
Dex +2
Bulk
Int -1
Will -1

SIXTH RANGER (who is called Flint Ironstag)
Class: Angel
Str
Dex -2
Bulk +1
Int +1
Will +2

PIRATE (who is called Oh Slab)
Class: Demon
Str
Dex +4
Bulk -1
Int
Will -1

Obviously, each character would naturally be good at certain talents than others and nothing will change that. Blast Hardcheese will always have +2 to his strength. This is where Proficiencies and Incompetences come in. The player must choose two Proficiencies, which are bonuses to two particular stats, and one Incompetence which imposes a stat reduction. And, yes, you can make your character an Expert, which doubles your proficiencies but only puts them into one stat or you can go balanced and have no incompetence but have to half the bonuses of your proficiencies, replacing them with Competence.

Back to our example, I've decided that I want Blast to be my team's fighter. So, I think what'd be for the best if he had a proficiency in strength, for fairly obvious reasons. Now, I might want to put his other proficiency into dexterity to make him even faster, but, being a Templar, he has poor intelligence and willpower. While willpower doesn't seem too useful, if my fighter is hit with a status ailment then all his strength will be useless, so I decide to put his second proficiency into willpower, and put his incompetence in intelligence because all fiyters is stupid. Meanwhile, Flint Ironside is clearly going to be good as a joint carry and buffer; shitloads of spells means that some of them will be useful buffs for the rest of the party, and he can also have the job of carrying everyone else's potions and stuff so they have more space for bigger weapons. However, I'm never going to have him attacking anything anyway, so I'll just stick the incompetence into strength. Finally, Oh Slab's dexterity is already through the roof, so instead of doing anything else I just make her an expert in dexterity to really send her DPS through the roof, and stick her incompetence into bulk because I'm stupid.

BLAST HARDCHEESE
Class: Templar
Str +4 (Proficient)
Dex +2
Bulk
Int -3 (Incompetent)
Will +1 (Proficient)

SIXTH RANGER (who is called Flint Ironstag)
Class: Angel
Str -2 (Incompetent)
Dex -2
Bulk +3 (Proficient)
Int +1
Will +4 (Proficient)

PIRATE (who is called Oh Slab)
Class: Demon
Str
Dex +8 (Expert)
Bulk -3 (Incompetent)
Int
Will -1

The three examples you've seen are examples of the different tactics the player can use in forming the party; obviously, given his stats Flint could have made an awesome spell caster, and I could've made Blast as fast as Oh Slab with the added strength bonus, and instead put Oh Slab's proficiency in strength and willpower to put her on the same tier as Blast and giving my party two really powerful and fast fighters. The proficiencies give the player a lot more options in their party making, with incompetence mostly there as a balancing act.

Growth; Growth here is just a fancy term for levelling stats. While classes, proficiencies and incompetencies would all be well and good, they're also things the player is stuck with from the start. This is fine, but if the player changes his mind he won't have a lot of control over what happens. This is where Growth comes in.

Every 5 levels (if we're having, say, thirty levels) the character will experience a Growth. The player gets a +1 modifier to any stat of their choosing, and this is where the strategy gets deeper.

Deus Mortuus :: Stranded - Page 2 Inception+meme

Back to our example from before, I get Blast Hardcheese to Lvl 5. Now I'm stuck with a problem; do I put the +1 into something that he's already good at, or do I try to iron out his existing kinks? I'm not using him for spellcasting, so Int's a no no, but what about his Bulk, which he doesn't have any modifiers in? Or should I make him even more powerful and put it into Strength? Let's say I puss out and put it into Str.

BLAST HARDCHEESE
Level 5
Class: Templar
Str +5 (Proficient)
Dex +2
Bulk
Int -3 (Incompetent)
Will +1 (Proficient)

I get to level 10, though, and now the game's been kicking my arse. Obviously, he needs some points into bulk.

BLAST HARDCHEESE
Level 10
Class: Templar
Str +5 (Proficient)
Dex +2
Bulk +1
Int -3 (Incompetent)
Will +1 (Proficient)

Up to level 15. I hear this next dungeon's boss has a shitton of status ailment spells.

BLAST HARDCHEESE
Level 15
Class: Templar
Str +5 (Proficient)
Dex +2
Bulk +1
Int -3 (Incompetent)
Will +2 (Proficient)

Level 20. My best sword skill's been a bit weak compared to my mage's best spells, I should balance it out.

BLAST HARDCHEESE
Level 20
Class: Templar
Str +6 (Proficient)
Dex +2
Bulk +1
Int -3 (Incompetent)
Will +2 (Proficient)

Level 25. I don't want him dying half through the final boss fight, though.

BLAST HARDCHEESE
Level 25
Class: Templar
Str +6 (Proficient)
Dex +2
Bulk +2
Int -3 (Incompetent)
Will +2 (Proficient)

This example shows what happens when players use their knowledge of their game to make informed decisions on the growth of their character's skilled. They can choose to balance their character out even more, make them able to take on multiple roles at once, or simply overpower one aspect and support them with other characters in the party.

Of course, my example uses every fifth level having Growth. If you think it's a better idea, then every level only have a +0.2 modifier, making the progression slower but more constant.

So, those are my three big ideas. Any suggestions?

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Post by Cael Gladius Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:55 am

I... actually wouldn't mind seeing those ideas implemented in this, Rob. The majority of it even seems simple enough to implement using RPG Maker without too big a headache.

Ross, I say this.

This.

Make this happen.

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Post by Lazarus Carter Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:06 am

Natural growth proficiency and stat assignment I can do really easily. And it's an excellent idea.

The weapons system is also something I can integrate to some extent. VX, however, allows you six stats, which do several things. They can be altered, sure, but:

HP - Simple.
MP - Also simple.
ATK - Discerns physical attack strength.
END - Discerns physical resistance.
AGI - Discerns evasion/blocking/ATB bar speed.
SPI - Discerns magical damage and defence.

I can rename these: but without hardcoding much of the scripting, I can't really do a lot.

As for the rest of the battle mechanics, it's quite simple; there are a list of player-created "Elements", so say two of these are "Slash" and "Fire". "Fire" will be strong against "Ice", in your example, "Slash" against "Block", in your example. Which means that, slash/block, the defense bonus of a shield would be negated, and fire/ice, means that 2x damage would be dealt anyway.

It can all work on principle. There's just some working around.

What I do however need to enforce is that we can't just have people able to "pick up" weaponry beyond basic improvised shit - cause that's not the way things work in Inferis. It'll have to be an upgrade or "weapon bench" system. I can introduce an item synthesis system at the cost of many man hours, but introduce it all the same. Or let you "buy" new Apparatus weaponry through some universal spiritual currency by blatantly breaking the fourth wall. Perhaps this reality-warping antagonist can do the same thing, and allow the Angel to actually change his Gear weaponry so the player can swap stuff out, the Demon to alter his Apparatus... etc etc.

Any thoughts?

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Post by Behemoth Hennimore Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:32 am

Well, the stats that come with VX are pretty similar to the ideas for stats I had, though just without the inventory space or spell capacity stuff I added, which is a bit of a shame but you could fix at least the latter by not necessarily giving someone a load of MP if they focus in magic, and make them try to balance the power of magic they have with the amount they can use to a degree. So, if you make your spells crazy good, then yeah they're awesome, but also you have to use them at the right time because you've got a limited amount.

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Post by Roll Fizzlebeef Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:03 am

[I'M SO LATE] You should change one of the secret characters to Aquaman, because badass pointless/useless superheroes are the shit.

or even better...

GARY MOTHERFUCKING OAK.

...Seriously, Gary needs to happen.

I will try to provide an actually helpful opinion/ideas when I actually can read through the whole thread after work. :D

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Post by Kraith the Hipster Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:35 am

I second Gary Oak as a playable character. His only attack would be driving up in a swank car, with his level 9001 Blastoise chillin in the passenger seat, and flashing all 10 of his Kanto gym badges at someone. Instant pwnage.

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Adelina tends also to speak Dat Dur Findlandicishese (cyan) and Silly Demons; Grits Are For Breakfast! (lightblue).
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Post by Roll Fizzlebeef Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:14 pm

I may be taking my herp-tastic suggestion too seriously, but I was actually thinking he could play like a Demon Hunter with hilariously over-the-top gaudy attack/magic animations that are (obviously) both anime and canon game references, like "Arcanine Blast" (That damned Arcanine...) or summoning his flashy convertible to blaze across the screen like you said. Given the fact that it would probably be best not to make him hopelessly overpowered, this will also induce a slight reference to FFVII (or just FF in general) in the fact that most, if not all of his attacks will have that "OMG YOU JUST BLEW UP THE PLANET- 7 damage." effect for multiplicative lulz.

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Post by Behemoth Hennimore Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:46 am

These are the full bodied designs for all the characters in a size and silhouette comparison.

From left to right.

Character          Gender          Associated Colour
Templar             Male             Red
Lancer               Female         Green
Ritualist             Male             Purple/Pink
Robot                Neutral         Beige
Angel                Male             Brown
Pirate                Female          Blue
Villain                Female          Grey/Rainbow

Spoiler:

Might have personality ideas for some of them, but you lot can go wild with them for now.

FOR A LARGER IMAGE -> https://2img.net/h/oi44.tinypic.com/219uek7.jpg

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